Orange Slice Podcast | Episode 3: Skinny Raven and Business Culture w/ Daniel Greenhalgh
From working at the front end with customers to eventually buying the business, Seth Stetson and Daniel Greenhalgh chat about history working with Skinny Raven to the point he eventually becomes the owner.
Podcast Transcript
Seth: …clients and—
Daniel: Can we get them on the call
Seth: Yeah, let's get them on the call
Daniel: Are we ready to go?
Nathaniel: Yeah, we're live. We're ready to go.
Seth: Yeah, we're recording.
Daniel: Is this the intro the outro we're recording now?
Nathaniel: We're just going straight into it.
Daniel: How's my mic distance from my face?
Nathaniel: You're great. I'll adjust to you.
Daniel: Okay. Yeah. If he gets me excited then it, um, could get real loud.
Seth: We're gonna get excited. You got a little table over there.
Daniel: Did you actually spend time on content or did you just sort of figure you'd wing it?
Seth: What do you think?
Daniel: I think you remembered this was happening and then this morning you're like, oh , “anything off limits?” It's like uh, well, I mean there's some things I would prefer you don't talk about but if you do i'll probably just sort of like, you know.
Seth: Yeah we'll — we'll cut anything. Yeah, you're gonna — this isn't live obviously. So we'll we'll cut anything that—
Daniel: Tasha told me I was being disrespectful to not show up at 9 45. Like, I said because the podcast wouldn't start on time and I said honey. It's not a live audio feed
Seth: Yeah, people think the podcasts are like a sporting event. Okay, well…
Daniel: I'm supposed to look at the cameras? You? What— Are we just having a conversation?
Seth: We’re just chatting, yeah. So, Dan Greenhalgh, Owner of Skinny Raven.
Daniel: Seth is literally the only person in Anchorage that calls me Dan.
Seth: Dan, why is that?
Daniel: Danny to some,
Seth: People call you Daniel, mostly?
Daniel: Yes, Daniel. Gary calls me Danny. Seth calls me Dan.
Seth: Who's Gary?
Daniel: My dad. Your housemate.
Seth: I just listened to that Matthew McConaghy Green Light. Have you gotten to that at all?
Daniel: No.
Seth: Oh my god. His his mom told him, "Never— Nobody calls you Matt. That's something people step on. They call you Matthew”
Daniel: Well, I mean something worked out for him
Seth: Right?
Daniel: Yeah, dude pisses me off. Just thinking about it.
Seth: That dude's the best looking dude ever. So, that yeah, that book's awesome. What book are you reading right now?
Daniel: Really?
Seth: Yeah
Daniel: Unbelievable.
Seth: Are you reading any books?
Daniel: Yeah, I'm reading a book right now. As a matter of fact, it's called— let's see. It's by Gabor Maté. It is a book about, “The Myth of Normal.”
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: Trauma. That’s like a hot topic right now
Seth: Trauma.
Daniel: Yeah. So, you want to get into that?
Seth: Yeah, maybe late— Maybe that— well, we can save that for later in the podcast.
Daniel: Anyways, highly recommend it.
Seth: “The Myth of Normal.”
Daniel: Yeah
Seth: Huh? So, yeah, I mean, we'll get right into it, I guess. You know— You people may or may not know — you own Skinny Raven now. How long have you owned Skinny Raven for now?
Daniel: Five years.
Seth: And what is— how would you describe Skinny Raven? Like, if somebody didn't know--I just talked to somebody yesterday. It was like, I don't know, I don't even know what Skinny Raven is. So,
Daniel: I mean if I’m out on the golf course, I’m like, uh, uh, we sell running shoes.
Seth: But really you guys are like a—
Daniel: Skinny Raven is just like a community store. Like it just so happens that we sell… I mean, it's like a community—
Seth: It's a cornerstone of the community.
Daniel: I don't want to say store even, because it really just so happens that we sell running related equipment. But really we're just like a community… Yeah, like a hub, is what I would think of us as…
Seth: Yeah,
Daniel: …that is also a retail store.
Seth: And it started…
Daniel: 1994
Seth: 90-- I was gonna say 96. 94?
Daniel: Mm-hmm.
Seth: Holy shit. You're almost fucking 40 years old. Is that right? No, 30 years old.
Daniel: 30 years old.
Seth: 30 years old. Bad math.
Daniel: Good thing you're marketing guy. I started there 95, 96.
Seth: Yeah:
Daniel: So, I worked there, then I became the CEO, then I worked there for like 25 years, and then quit for three months, then bought it.
Seth: Why would like-- for people who don't know, like why would somebody come to Skinny Raven? Like, what-- Like what does that look like when-- Like why do people go there instead of going to like Amazon or Zappos or these other, you know, shoe outlets that exist? Obviously in Anchorage we’re super limited on brick-and-mortar stores, but there's so many options out there now and people shop so heavily on price. Like, what makes it like-- like your store more valuable to people? Why do they keep coming back?
Daniel: First of all, a cautionary tale. When Jeff Bezos said that his goal is to sell everything to everybody, like that would cause me to pause a little bit before just going straight to Amazon.
Seth: Jeffy B, I call him.
Daniel: Jeffy B. Obviously brilliant, but at the same time like we need unique-- we need unique stores and stories in the marketplace. We need people that specialize in shit. So the reason somebody would come to Skinny Raven, oftentimes they find us because they've had an issue or they've had it-- like if it's a footwear fit issue or if it's a training question or whatever, like they find us because they're trying to solve a problem. And hopefully they know, or they believe that, we know-- that we have the resources to help them. And so often it could be that this person might have already tried to buy a shoe online or they might have already tried to buy a shoe at Fred Meyer or wherever. The ever-shrinking list of mid-market retailers, right?
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: So pretty soon, it's going to be Skinny Ravens of the world and Amazons. So, I know I’m being completely negligent in mentioning a lot of other great options, but really it's …
Seth: But the, you're saying, like, the days of having a store that kind of like a brick-and-mortar store that kind of carries lots of different things is sort of maybe not going to exist in the future.
Daniel: I mean, it's tough. It's like, you know, like you said, “people, if they're price motivated.” I think it's maybe more than price motivated. I think it's convenience motivated.
Seth: Convenience, for sure.
Daniel: And if you live in a market like Phoenix, Arizona, you could get your shit from Amazon that day. So, it's not like it, you know, it could be home from-- You could order it at work and it could be waiting for you when you arrive home. So, that seems pretty convenient to me. Thankfully, in Anchorage, Alaska, It still takes like, you know, three to 50 days to get your stuff from Amazon or others. Yeah, so I uh, I think they might have come to Skinny Raven because they participated in an event we hosted or they might have…
Seth: So you guys have an events company as well?
Daniel: Yeah.
Seth: Maybe you could—yeah.
Daniel: You could put on running/walking races throughout the summer. We also time a bunch of others for non-profits and well, mainly non-profits, that they want to host events throughout the summer we time, you know, we provide timing services and event management stuff.
Seth: Yeah, and so I…
Daniel: Did I answer the question about why somebody would come to skinny raven?
Seth: Yeah, kind of I I was getting-- Also thinking about, while you were talking, which I try not to because I like to try to be like, in the moment, listening, but it's hard not to think about it.
Daniel: It'd have to be something worth listening to though, right?
Seth: Yeah, but the experience you guys offer, like you know what-- Full disclosure: I worked at Skinny Raven for 11-12 years. Maybe a little more-- And you know, that's really where I learned, I guess, how to market to people in-- through sales and through my interactions with people that came into the store. It really helped me and got me to where I am today I feel like. The ability to talk to lots of different people about lots of different subjects. Not always about their training or about the shoes or the product, but a lot of times about their personal stuff and they're where they were working and what they're going on in their lives and their kids. And I think that's a big part of what Skinny Raven offers the community is that, you know, they have that touch point, that physical touch point where they can really, you know, almost be like a therapist almost. I think sometimes sales becomes—Right? You can really you got to have a line there, but…
Daniel: No, I mean absolutely right. Like, you know how those can go, you know, like, you know. It's probably why they don't let me on the sales floor. It’s because I like, mine are two-hour fittings. Where like, 17 other people might walk out because I was so engrossed in this one conversation. Also, Seth, you have something like, you know, it's like probably my own my only marketable skill too is just like naturally being curious. So, you have that as well. You're actually interested. So, it's not about selling the product. It's about like discovering, like, somebody else's experience or learning something about, you know, everything, because everything can be interesting on some level.
Seth: Absolutely.
Daniel: So uh, that that really side barred off of you working at Skinny Raven,
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: Etc. But yeah.
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: But anyways, just like,
Seth: Yeah that to me like that when you're sitting here describing what you learned in your marketing and where you are today
Seth: Yeah, you know, this is..
Daniel: It's actually just because you were curious, and interested, and
Seth: And I listened and that’s
Daniel: I mean, I wish it was still as easy as a Daily News sticky note.
Seth: Dan's referring to back in the day with print. Print, radio, and tv were the only really media outlets that you could leverage your messaging on. We used to use the Daily newsprint and we used to put a sticky on the front page of it. Most of the time, almost always, for Dansko footwear. Some sort of Dansko clog special we were running and it would blow up. We would sell a hundred--
Daniel: Like, guaranteed it was like-- I wish it was that easy today.
Seth: …a few hundred pairs and it was such a…
Daniel: Yeah.
Seth: It was such a powerful tool. Now messaging is…
Daniel: Ehh, they might see it. “Yes, what demographic would you like to run this ad to?
Seth: Yeah, what was your target audience? How much do you want to spend?
Daniel: Yeah, totally.
Seth: Because we can spend a million dollars.
Daniel: And not necessarily achieve result.
Seth: So, before we move on to, like, how you guys maybe leverage your message or marketing stuff, I wanted to talk a little bit about the experience you guys offer at Skinny Raven. So, when I was there, there was a sales process put into place which basically, you know, dictated how a customer is going to be treated to create a consistent a consistent sort of process for people to go through as they-- kind of what happens when they come in the store. How they get greeted, offering them coffee, kind of questions that allow them to, you know, open up about like what they're there for. So maybe just kind of a talk about-- for people listening. I think business owners, especially they don't think enough about that, I think. And like, especially brick and mortar stores. So, I don't know like what-- how did you come up with-- sort of like…
Daniel: Are you talking about our pre-covid experience? Because now it's just like unlock the door throw your stuff out… Yeah, like we live and die by that right you live and die by the um By the people that you have on the sales floor engaged in the work that they're doing and for us Yes, it is a process based business. We try and um open that up to as much um, LikemPersonal interpretation so that it doesn't just feel like it's like…
Seth: Scripted.
Daniel: Yeah, scripted, right.
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: Oh, do you have this? Do you have this do you have that?
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: And, really, like we want our team to offer you everything that we are. We don't want to just be, oh, do you have?
Seth: Oh… are you serious?
Daniel: Rule number one.
Seth: Put your phone on silent.
Daniel: I'm a busy guy. My sister-in-law must have needed something essential. Anyway, so yeah, while it's a process the customer journey is dictated by their needs, you know, not just our desire to sell you something.
Seth: Yeah. Exactly. That’s a great point.
Daniel: So, if somebody comes in and they're and they're training for, you know, to walk a 5K. Like, that might-- that would have its own unique set. Okay, so, you know, we'll talk about your experience where you're using the footwear?
Seth: Roads, trails, treadmill…
Daniel: You know, we might, that might lead us into something completely away from footwear which could be personal safety or, you know,
Seth: Yeah, foot problems. Like, if you have bunions or, you know, there was a lot of those plantar fasciitis
Daniel: So training advice, if you're already having issues, we have great resources in the community for pts and podiatrists and other medical providers. If-- Yeah, so basically, while there's like a set of things that we want to look at when you're in, it can go so many different directions based on just every sort of interaction. Every sort of-- every interaction with the customer is another pivot point.
Seth: Yeah, and do you guys do you guys still do uh gait analysis where you put somebody on the treadmill and video their stride?
Daniel: Yeah, and we do we have a some foot scanning technology as well. So gait analysis, foot scanning, Q&A, and, you know, we also like really just also like to watch the customer walk or, you know, standing we still measure feet with a Brannock device, probably a you know several hundred year old device that's still essential in our business.
Seth: That's funny. So, people who don't know what the Brannock device is, it's like a big metal device that your foot goes on so you can look at your size. I think a lot of people, probably young people, probably haven't seen one.
Daniel: Yeah, and if they have like-- Yeah, you're right. Anybody under maybe 30 probably never has seen one. Maybe even 40. Could be 50. But it was the thing like when I was a kid you got your foot measured, you know.
Seth: Yeah, every time. Yeah, what was that? What was that shoe store in the University Mall? What was it called? You know what I'm talking about?
Daniel: Well, there was Kenny's.
Seth: Kenny's! That's what it was! Kenny's.
Daniel: Which was adjacent to—yeah, yeah. Footlocker.
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: Round table.
Seth: And then, you know, people used to refer to me, when I used to sell shoes, as Al Bundy. Did you ever get that?
Daniel: Yeah, I mean, I literally am Al Bundy my entire life. Especially my twin brother. He loves to live on that one. Listen, I don't know if it's supposed to be an insult or not, but I…
Seth: It's not!
Daniel: Whatever it is. Like, I've had a great life doing what I've gotten to do.
Seth: Well, yeah, I mean you definitely have. What—So, I know this is gonna be a tough question, but like if you can point at like, I guess, because Skinny Raven is one of the most successful, I think, local brick and mortar stores like this in Alaska-- Is the most successful locally owned brick and mortar retail store in Alaska.
Daniel: I mean, I'd challenge that, but thank you.
Seth: Yeah. Well…
Daniel: I mean, there's lots of great—
Seth: You guys have won Best Running Stores in America. Top 50.
Daniel: Top 50.
Seth: How many times?
Daniel: Oh, you know…
Seth: Every year!
Daniel: Too many to count.
Seth: Too many times. Have you guys ever…
Daniel: To be clear, we've never won the Best Running Store in Alaska, but I think that is because…
Seth: In America.
Daniel: I’m sorry, in America. That's probably just because...
Seth: Why is that?
Daniel: That's just because they, you know, they just sort of consider that it wouldn't be possible for a store--
Seth: In Alaska.
Daniel: Yeah, Alaska.
Seth: Well, you guys are doing a big remodel right now. So that's,
Daniel: Whoof.
Seth: Hoof.
Daniel: Oof.
Seth: That's gonna blow the doors...
Daniel: I should have said, “That's an off-limits topic.” The problem is, when you're open during a remodel, the only thing you really discover is that customers don't pay attention a lot of times to what they saw before.
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: Because they come in they go, like, “I thought that you guys were remodeling.” Like, we’re like, “Literally everything is different.” And now you're regretting. Why’d I spend all this money?
Seth: Yeah. I'm sure it'll be…
Daniel: I joke. I joke. It's great. It's almost done.
Seth: Is there something you can point to though that, sort of, is the sort of secret sauce or the reason for your success or why this thing has gone so far? We’re talking about 30 years next year, in business. That's an amazing feat. And you just became, let's be clear. You became the owner five years ago-ish
Daniel: Five years, yep.
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: September it'll be six.
Seth: But, where was it—but, have been the CEO for 20…
Daniel: 25.
Seth: Yeah, 27, I was going to say. Yeah. So, secret sauce
Daniel: Since 2000.
Seth: I mean, I know it's a lot of different things because, like I said, I had eyes on it and I was in the In the trenches working there.
Daniel: Well, then what would you say the secret sauce is?
Seth: I mean, honestly, it's creating an experience that people don't expect. I think when you do something that people don't expect they tend to, you know, remember it. And they tend to talk more about it and then they tend to-- it creates-- the experience they get-- that people get at Skinny Raven creates loyalty. And that kind of loyalty is-- You just can't even compete with that on a level on the digital side.
Daniel: Yeah, it's not transactional, right?
Seth: No, it's not a transactional situation.
Daniel: I guess, in my mind, I would be like—I’m sitting here going like, well, I thought everybody expected what we offered and more, you know what I mean? Like…
Seth: I don't think so.
Daniel: Yeah, yeah, that's just probably—
Seth: I think older people probably got those experiences when they were younger or back in the day, but…
Daniel: I have to think about the experiences I have in my own consumer journey. And I don't experience a lot of places that I go into where somebody still, you know, sits you down and takes the time one-on-one or-- it's kind of, almost, like if I were-- you were going to a tailor for a suit or something.
Seth: Totally.
Daniel: Yeah, they really um, huh. I, to be completely honest, you caught me off guard on this because I really thought that this…
Seth: That people…
Daniel: Yeah. This is like, yeah, that people might just see this in their lives, but they don't.
Seth: I had that experience in Omaha when I was at that shoe store.
Daniel: Oh, yeah. Yeah!
Seth: That kid just like, was knew everything about shoes.
Daniel: What was his name, by the way? Because we should, you should
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: [Unintelligible] tell him he needs to move up here to work in footwear retail.
Seth: Well, you know, that's a big problem right now is getting employees and employees that will, number one: show up to an interview. And this is something we're hearing from our clients constantly, like we need people-- we need-- we need employees. And, I just saw Kriner's Diner post something like, “Hey,” --or it was actually Kriner, the owner, who-- Andy posted, like, “Hey, people don't want to work these days.” But, to me, when I saw that, I wanted to like put in the post, like, “Hey,” you know, “Why would somebody work there?” And not in an offensive way, but, like, are you thinking about, as a business owner, like, the culture you're providing and thinking about, like, if you were going to go get a job somewhere, what would you look for in that and why would you work for that person or that business? Organizations these days, you have to provide some sort of, like, purpose for people or some sort of, like, culture for people to really get-- to really feel like they're a part of something. So, I know you've had a lot of success with great people in the past, you know, me included, maybe?
Daniel: Sure, sure.
Seth: But like people like Jerry Ross and Jim Settle and I know, you know, these are these are people that, maybe, you know, have moved on since. But these are-- these were, like-- You guys have had a lot of high-end people work for you and people really want to work at Skinny Raven. And I think that's something that a lot of business owners want to tap into. And I know you probably haven't thought much about it, but if
Daniel: I just was thinking about it this morning when I was doing payroll.
Seth: Okay, yeah. Oh, yeah, it's that time of month, huh?
Daniel: I mean, I think it's the same. You could answer this-- if it was a question, I would answer the question the same as I would talk about the consumer journey and the customer. Like, why people shop at Skinny Raven. I would say that the same as people that would work at skinny raven and I would-- to me it's just like creating an environment of, like, I don't know. It's loving-kindness sounds really like, you know, sort of ‘ooo’, like,-- who do they think they are? But it's just, like, creating a really safe, awesome place that's there for them: customers and employees. So, like, Skinny Raven just, like, 100% exists to serve. So, it serves the people that shop there and the people that work there.
Seth: I think you were the one that said, what is it? Cool-- What do I always say? Cool, caring, and—
Daniel: Oh, it was in our handbook. Yeah,
Seth: It was like---
Daniel: But you have to be hard working too, right? So, you only get to have all those things.
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: If you're super hard working. So, listen, we have employee journeys that, you know, sometimes don't align with, you know, like-- you have to be super dynamic to work at Skinny Raven. You know firsthand.
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: And it takes it takes a pretty unique person that can handle-- especially our seasonal busyness and all the expectations of the job. And being your best self every damn day.
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: Like, because—
Seth: Checking your problems at the door. Your personal stuff.
Daniel: Yeah, you'd like to say that, but you know where this is now: 2023. And you don't check your problems anywhere. And that's okay like bring it. Yeah, you bring them to the, you know. You just, maybe—Now, hopefully, if you're struggling to interact with people, you might, you know, you might share with your team and, maybe not be the first to the customer on those days.
Seth: Yeah. Cool, kind, and caring. That's what it was.
Daniel: Yeah, just like—
Seth: And that's something I use for-- This is something I use with my staff and, like, how I would like to, you know, treat people. And I still use that same kind of frame--
Daniel: You do it with your clients, man. Like, you even have a list of these people. You know, these people-- the list of—and-- of your clients that I’m seeing on the board, or the people I’ve heard you work with. They probably, like, never worked with a marketing agency before. So, just to get them to say yes to a meeting was like, you know, like a ginormous win. And then beyond that, whatever energy you brought into that meeting—Like,
Seth: Sure.
Daniel: Clearly it resonated with them.
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: So, you know, yeah. Just-- you could probably be successful-- not you-- but one could probably be successful doing anything if they brought this attitude to it. It's fun. I mean, like, you know--
Seth: Be cool. It's fun to be cool.
Daniel: Yeah, wait, listen. They kicked me out of first class on Alaska Airlines the other night and I was challenged as a motherfucker to stay cool.
Seth: What?
Daniel: You know,
Seth: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,
Daniel: I'm sit—Listen.
Seth: I’m listening.
Daniel: Number one, I was flying back to Alaska, and you know what we're looking at out here today. It's snowing and it's May, what, 3rd?
Seth: Oh, yeah, May 3rd.
Daniel: May 3rd. It's snowing.
Seth: Dumping.
Daniel: And I'm not talking about some little bullshit, sleety thing. I'm talking about an 11 a.m, uh, 10:26am, dumping snow that might stick. Maybe you gotta go put your studded tires back on.
Seth: Yeah, right. Fuck that.
Daniel: So, I'm getting ready to leave Arizona and knowing I'm coming home to this shit. And, oh, two hours before I go to the airport, it says-- these guys are talking in the background. I think you just said his voice is too loud, or his mouth is so big you can't fit on the camera. One of the two. Anyways, I'm getting ready to go to the airport two hours away. I get this, “ding, ding, you've been upgraded to first class.” Oh, you made my day. I can go home now, right?
Seth: Awesome, that’s the best feeling.
Daniel: Uh, 3D, I'll never forget. So I, you know, I organized my bag for the airplane. So, I’ve got all the stuff I would want. Only in first class.
Seth: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. There's a whole different situation in first class.
Daniel: ‘Cause I'm not gonna be like trying to work on my laptop in coach…
Seth: Not in coach.
Daniel: Coach, I mean, come on.
Seth: That's for the mutants
Daniel: I did not agree with that statement.
Seth: I always fly coach. I got up-- I did get upgraded to Omaha.
Daniel: Anyways, so I’m sitting there and this all of a sudden, this guy comes up and he says, “Oh, are you Mr. Greenhalgh?” And I said, “Oh, yeah. Yeah,” And he goes, “I'm sorry, sir. We've oversold first class and you're gonna have to—"
Seth: Oh, my God!
Daniel: “You're gonna have to go back to your assigned-- your other assigned seat.”
Seth: Oh, no.
Daniel: So, I just really-- I mean, like, you know, what. You just, like, something you didn't even know was possible two hours earlier is now rage worthy. Right? It's like if the internet quits working on the airplane.
Seth: Oh, yeah.
Daniel: Like, I mean, it's fac—
Seth: It's like, ding!
Daniel: It's amazing that you actually have internet on an airplane
Seth: Can you flip that switch off and on again?
Daniel: Can you reset your router on your satellite internet?
Seth: I have to ask people to do that.
Daniel: Like, the most amazing technology that ever existed, and somehow, we expected--
Seth: I was thinking about that the other day. It must be coming from satellites, right?
Daniel: Yeah, it is now.
Seth: Okay.
Daniel: So, they toss me back to 15C. And I don't know why I’m sharing this with the audience. I'm like looking around like, everybody should get this, but I go back to 15C. This is all happening while the plane is like, being fully loaded. So, now I’m just like,--
Seth: Oh, uncomfortable.
Daniel: in the thing, walking back there with my first class bag. I wanted to steal the water from first class at least, so I left with something. Fuck. Anyways, so, I start rolling back and somebody's sitting in 15C.
Seth: No…
Daniel: Yeah! So, now I just don't even know what to do. So, I just keep sort of sloshing to the back of the plane.
Seth: Because you got people behind you.
Daniel: Everywhere! and if I-- and it's a full flight. So any flight-- anything I stand in, any seat I stand in, somebody's gonna be like, “Um ,right there, sir.” So, I just go all the way back to the galley.
Seth: Hold tight.
Daniel: Hold tight back there. The flight attendant says, “Oh, what can I do for you, sir? And I was like, “Well, you know, uh, I was in first class.” So, yeah, so she says,-- and I kind of like-- It's like, “Oh, you know.” She says, “Well, you have a very positive attitude about that and I’m like, “Well, would being an asshole have gotten me anywhere?”
Seth: No.
Daniel: Nah.
Seth: Nah. Got you kicked off the plane, maybe.
Daniel: Yeah. So, anyways, I ended up in 23A. You know, met a really nice couple that was sitting there that was super bummed when the seat next to them got filled up.
Seth: Wasn't a middle seat at least for you for your sake.
Daniel: Oh, listen.
Seth: Did they give you free drinks or anything or like give you a meal?
Daniel: They claimed-- and Alaska Airlines, if you're listening to this—unlikely, but it's two in a row pal. You know, like,
Seth: Oh, two in a row?
Daniel: I live and die by this frequent flyer program and you let me down. This is two-- You're 0 for two in the last two flights. But don't worry, I gave him a piece of my mind on the first time. It was probably delayed like two hours and I was that typical asshole customer.
Seth: It’s their fault.
Daniel: Yeah, it's always their fault.
Seth: Shit.
Daniel: Anyways, they've been great for years. It just so happens the last two have been bad. We on a time crunch here?
Seth: No, no.
Daniel: Okay.
Seth: No, I was just checking, making sure we're—
Daniel: I got a busy day, so…
Seth: I heard. What do you got at 11:15am?
Daniel: I gotta be home so I can give my wife the car.
Seth: Oh, yeah, you guys are still sharing cars.
Daniel: Well, me personally?
Seth: Yeah, you share—
Daniel: I mean, I am borrowing every janky car I can get my hand on. I've actually discovered-- I’ve done like a like a sociology experiment about like, how people look at you depending on the— what car you're driving.
Seth: Oh, yeah, yeah. Because you drive that shitty Volkswagen.
Daniel: Yeah, sure like you drive it—
Seth: Like a 2000 Passat,
Daniel: Or I borrowed like this totally like juiced up, like, you know, a pickup truck from my sister-in-law. Like, they had this extra truck and it's got like a custom exhaust on it. So you look like you're just like—
Seth: And people are like, oh look at this douchebag.
Daniel: Yeah, yup! And I thought we lived in a place that nobody cared what car you drove.
Seth: No, that's not true.
Daniel: They don't care what clothes you wear, what house you live in, what neighborhood, blah, blah, blah. Whatever.
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: Yeah, they definitely care what car you drive. Not like it affected my, you know.
Seth: Yeah. What are you doing for exercise these days?
Daniel: Well today I’m gonna go-- It's supposed to be sunny and 75 this afternoon, so I'm gonna go for a road bike ride.
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: I'm gonna ride my indoor trainer today.
Seth: You are…
Daniel: What am I doing? I'm doing, like, dog walk-- or dog walking and running a couple-- three days a week.
Seth: Yeah
Daniel: I like to ride my mountain bike as much as possible. But if I’m in Alaska, that's indoor right now.
Seth: Are you training for anything?
Daniel: No, I’m doing some San Juan hut trip with some friends in September. So, I just better have some calluses on my ass to be ready to go for that.
Seth: How many miles?
Daniel: Like, seven days of like,
Seth: 100 miles a day, or something?
Daniel: No, it's like 40 or 50 a day, but it's all mountain biking. So, it's going to be long and slow.
Seth: How many Ironman’s have you done?
Daniel: What's an Ironman?
Seth: Yeah. You forgot. You blacked out—
Daniel: --like seven or eight—
Seth: Shut up. You still have that tattoo.
Daniel: No, I got it removed. Nobody needs to know about this?
Seth: Yes, that's a huge thing! Like, people like-- to go their whole life without doing anything—
Daniel: Let's get back to marketing
Seth: Right? You've done the Race Across America.
Daniel: On a team, to be clear.
Seth: On a team, yeah. Not by yourself.
Daniel: Yeah, like, the dudes that do it solo have to literally tape, like, a board to their back and neck because they get this sort of disorder in their neck. So, no didn't do that.
Seth: You've done a ton of marathons, right?
Daniel: A few, yeah.
Seth: And can you-- Do you have any that really stick out that you've—
Daniel: New York City.
Seth: New York City Marathon?
Daniel: Yeah, that was pretty special. Because I haven't done any of the bigs, like I haven't done like Boston or London or whatever. Chicago. I only did New York and it was-- I was super under trained. So, I went and just ran it with a buddy of mine and well, speed-- no matter how slow we were going, it did not help. Because, like, by mile 14 you get to start to get-- I think it's like 14 or 15, you get on these super long stretches as you're coming back into this into like manhattan or something whatever and like my hamstrings were like piano wire. So, I kept pretending like I had to go to the bathroom, so I could just go in there, and just fucking take a break. It was so brutal. A positive: they fucked up my time. So, like, my time chip read, like, 40 minutes faster that I actually—
Seth: Oh, wow.
Daniel: Yeah, I didn't actually reach out to have them correct it.
Seth: No, why would you? So, that was, kind of, a negative one?
Daniel: Well, I mean, it was awesome. It was a great experience.
Seth: It seems like you were-- If you're running New York, it's-- like, you would be so distracted by all this shit to look at that you would not even realize that you were, like, running after a while, but, I guess, if your piano string hamstrings—
Daniel: I'll tell you what. You go find the most scenic marathon in the world and tell me if, as you go through it, you don't pay attention to your body falling apart under your feet.
Seth: Alright.
Daniel: Well, Seth, I know you have a script for us here. So, what's next on this script?
Seth: I don't really have anything scripted.
Daniel: You guys should see the audience here. They are so compelled by this conversation.
Seth: You also have won the Top 40 Under 40, which I-- which I understand you didn't go to actually. Did you send somebody in your place when you—
Daniel: Is this-- I figured it out now. This is like-- you're actually trying to ruin my career by having me on here. I knew there was a reason I was the first guest. Do you have a listening audience? Is—like, am I being paid for this?
Seth: Uh, we'll see. We'll see, you know…
Daniel: Just going out on your normal social channels. Yeah, I did win Top 40 Under 40, but I was like 26 years old. So just say, youth. Like, I didn't appreciate it because I was—
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: --an idiot.
Seth: No. Do you think that stuff's important though?
Daniel: For me personally?
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: No.
Seth: No.
Daniel: It isn't important to me because, like, recognition is my—like, the bane of my existence.
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: Like, I would prefer just to like hang out in the background and make sure that everybody else is like—And, okay. Anybody who knows me would challenge this idea because it's not like I’m just like silently back there just like, you know, but it's just like, yeah. Like, I don't want—Like, I don't want the recognition for it. I just want to be part of something cool.
Seth: You do. You do have a super unique style, I guess, of running your business because I think a lot of other entrepreneurs or business owners would be super jealous and would desire this sort of lifestyle and—
Daniel: Well, then why aren't they doing it?
Seth: --work life balance. Because they probably don't know what it looks like, right?
Daniel: Yeah.
Seth: That's why people get in the grind and they can't get out.
Daniel: It's a big leap.
Seth: Yeah. Tell me this. Talk a little bit about, like, what that-- what your kind of work life thing-- how that looks, because I think it's super cool. And it's something that I kind of strive for myself.
Daniel: Well, if I could just talk about all sides of it, right? So, I’m almost 50 years old. I know I don't look it guys, but it's happening. I was just down in Arizona and somebody thought Chloe and I were brother and sister.
Seth: Oh, yeah.
Daniel: It's like, I'm like-- Better than sugar daddy, I guess. My daughter is 28. So, that tells you how old I look. Maybe-- It's probably the way I was acting. It has nothing to do with how I look.
Seth: Sure, yeah.
Daniel: I was acting like 18.
Seth: Yeah, you're super immature.
Daniel: Yeah, so, I’ve done the work all the time grind, where you, like--where, you know. So, I have two kids, 28 and 17. Daughter, when she was young, I was just like, my job is to go to work. That's my job. Go to work. And, you know-- And it's easy, as you guys know, like, doing stuff you like is—Like, sometimes, like, it's the thing you'd like to do more than anything, right? Like, you don't want to go home. You don't want to engage in something else. And so, I probably have probably have a slightly obsessive side of my personality that just like had me just spending all my time at work or on work. And so, I did that for a long time. Probably even far longer than I probably needed to, but it was comfortable. It was—So, when we decided to have a second kid-- well, actually we didn't decide when we had it. When my—
Seth: They were both accidents?
Daniel: Yeah. When Tasha got pregnant--
Seth: They won't listen to this. Don't worry.
Daniel: Yeah, that's okay. I mean everybody's aware. I mean—So, yeah, I knew it had to be a little bit, like--- I wanted it to be different, not just knew it had to be different. So-- And plus, I had a super nervous son. So, I started, you know, spending more time-- Out of necessity, like, coaching his events, kind of things. So, that take-- took you away from work. But, like many people—like, Skinny Raven was a job for me for a long time. Right? It was my job. So—
Seth: You had to be there.
Daniel: So, I had to, you know. Had/--
Seth: Put in hours.
Daniel: Right. Yeah. So, I wanted to be there, but I had to be there. It was like a job.
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: And I don't say that negatively. It's just like that-- That I was tasked with the job and so, I worked there… I'm gonna—
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: Leave a lot of subjects behind.
Seth: Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Daniel: But, it's okay. It's not relevant. So--
Seth: What are you doing now? Like, what—
Daniel: I'm gonna tell you.
Seth: Okay, okay.
Daniel: If you just don't-- Don't-- You don't have-- If you can have faith, I’ll get there, okay? You can cut out all the bullshit.
Seth: Land this plane.
Daniel: You can cut out all the bullshit, it's fine. I mean, you know, he's back there editing as we speak. Alright, scrape.
Seth: Cut that.
Daniel: We got nothing to use here. Anyways… So, in 2017, I think. I just had a couple of things in life come to a head and I was just like, I-- As blessed as I was to work in this company and work for the people I work for and with-- I just couldn't do it anymore. I quit.
Seth: You left Skinny Raven.
Daniel: I quit Skinny Raven.
Seth: Holy shit.
Daniel: Really without a plan.
Seth: That might have been-- That must have been really scary.
Daniel: Well, yeah. It was terrifying. And then I was convinced that I was just gonna sit around and spend all the money I didn't really have because I didn't have another good idea. I mean fear is, you know, it can be an incredible motivator. But in my situation it did nothing. It was just 100% paralysis. That's why I was so impressed when I saw you change careers during Covid and you just, like, started throwing darts at the wall. Even if some of ‘em didn't stick. I mean, what was it? The grocery?
Seth: Anchorage Grocery.
Daniel: Yeah. I mean, you just did it. You didn't sit around and, you know—Like, I found myself staring out the window, like, being a little bitch thinking that I was owed something that I wasn't. I quit. My wife reminded me that many times.
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: You quit your job. So, that summer was tough. That was, like, June, July, August, and I-- and then in September, I reconnected and got a call that they were willing to sell Skinny Raven and I was willing to buy it, of course.
Seth: It was about to go out of business, as far as I understand. That—
Daniel: I mean, I think it was—Listen. Anybody out there that doesn't understand the value of, like, leadership and consistency of culture and all those things. I can-- This is a very, very, like, a reasonably recent and very firsthand account of really smart people-- Yeah, I mean, you need—You-- You need to have—Yeah, like, a reason for being-- Like, for staff, for customers, like-- Leadership's really important. And so, I left and didn't really leave Skinny Raven with a plan. Like, they didn't, you know—
Seth: They didn't have a plan.
Daniel: --for them. Yeah. I left-- I mean, in fairness, I probably left them in a pretty bad spot, but I had to do for me what was right.
Seth: Yep.
Daniel: So, three months later they decided that they didn't want to do it.
Seth: They were either going to sell the business or close it. Is that right?
Daniel: I think-- I hope I’m not disclosing too much, but, yeah. I mean, when I first had the conversation with Hal and Dana, who were the former owners. They wanted me to come help liquidate it. And I was like, well, you know, we can't do that, obviously. And they were like-- It was probably, yeah, and it-- It was, you know, a great blessing that they were willing to sell it and they were willing to sell it to somebody who really couldn't afford it. So-- But we had worked together for a long time. Anyways, whole point if you could just circle it back is that--
Seth: Yes.
Daniel: After I bought the company, the sole goal was that it lasts forever. So, it doesn't die with me. It doesn't, you know, live and die by my interest. It's that that company's got to live forever. And, so we chose to, like, run it differently. And that's really why my life is the way it is. It’s because if everything was about me sitting in an office and controlling everything,
Seth: It would die with you.
Daniel: There you go.
Seth: Yeah, when you were—
Daniel: So, I know that sounds like I'm romanticizing something and just being selfish, but it's,
Seth: Oh, no.
Daniel: But, yeah.
Seth: That's super important. I think, for people to hear that, to know, like, it doesn't-- Every decision and everything in your business shouldn't live and die by you.
Daniel: Or, like, do you really think you're the smartest, best person at all these things? Is that possible?
Seth: No. Yeah.
Daniel: So, for me, that just really-- I had to-- I had already checked my ego. I mean, when I quit my job…
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: …and when nobody was begging me to come back or anything.
Seth: Right.
Daniel: And it's not like everybody-- There was no Jerry Maguire moment where, you know—
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: Nobody was rushing out the door with me. So, like, my ego was pretty much, you know. Oh, like-- I mean, so—So, that was-- I mean, in a good way, I was able to, you know-- to let the ego go and just realize that, like, I didn't really matter.
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: Like, I mattered in that situation because I left the bit—like, I didn't really have a plan. The business didn't have a plan because I didn't set it up for my departure. I was just like--
Seth: Peace.
Daniel: Yeah, yeah. So—
Seth: You got two locations now. You own the property as well, as the retail business, as well as the timing and events business…
Daniel: I own the timing events business with Mark.
Seth: Yeah, with Mark. And then, the downtown location and then there's the Dimond location as well, for people who aren't familiar with Skinny Raven.
Daniel: Yeah, we were out washing the track yesterday at Dimond.
Seth: Oh, yeah.
Daniel: Dimond has a 60-meter track around the field--
Seth: Yeah, they have 60 meter-- which is super cool.
Daniel: 19 laps to the mile.
Seth: Maybe we could pull that up in the-- in the-- When we—
Daniel: Are you guys doing show notes and stuff? Are you guys gonna have, like, “in the show notes”?
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: Wow.
Seth: This is a legit podcast, Dan.
Daniel: I think that, unfortunately, my episode is going to be sort of like, lost in the early days of the podcast, where it’s like--
Seth: It might be, but this because this is our launching point though.
Daniel: Of course, I mean, I’m happy to be here for this, but I mean, like-- You know, you got like, Bill Gates next week, you've got—
Seth: Yep. Yep, yep, yep. We got Elon Musk, Lex Friedman, I think Jordan Peterson is going to be coming on.
Nathaniel: Matthew McConaughey is on the way too, right?
Seth: Yeah. Is Matt coming-- We got him?
Nathaniel: I got him on the list.
Seth: He doesn't like to be called Matt, so Matthew.
Nathaniel: That's right, Matthew.
Daniel: I mean, technically, you could put any name you want on the list, right?
Seth: Yeah, it’s on a list.
Nathaniel: That's correct.
Seth: It's just a list.
Daniel: Yeah, it's like, we've got, you know, it looks like we've got, you know, anybody coming.
Nathaniel: You got exactly what we're going for, yeah.
Daniel: Yeah.
Nathaniel: Everybody's on the list
Seth: So, there's a ton—like, shit's changing right now. Not to change the subject, but I’m really—
Daniel: You should because we only have like, 13 and a half minutes left, based on the large digital clock that I’m sure is—
Seth: You know, with ChatGPT and GPT4 and all this ai—
Daniel: Oh wait, there’s GPT4 now?
Seth: Yeah, there's AutoGPT, there's-- I’m trying to keep up because it really affects-- It's going to affect, and be something-- a tool that all marketers use in the future, but where do you see your business going and, sort of, the future for Skinny Raven and brick and mortar retail businesses like yours in general?
Daniel: Well, I think given all those circumstances if AI doesn't actually destroy the world.
Seth: It's not going to destroy the world. Let's be honest.
Daniel: Let's be honest like, that-- I think that—Personally, I think that people will have, like, and you guys can laugh at me, but I think people are going to just push back on the whole, like, you know, AI integration.
Seth: Okay.
Daniel: Not everybody. There'll be, like, the adopters—
Seth: You won't know. Like, there's these deep fakes now where people don't know, like, this photo or this image of something the Pope, or whatever. It is was created by AI. You know, about this?
Daniel: I don't.
Seth: They're called deep fakes. It's like, you don't know, you won't know the difference.
Daniel: Oh, great.
Seth: Yeah
Daniel: So, that you could create whatever narrative you want with AI.
Seth: Yeah, you can create movies, like, with scripts. You could create films, videos, pictures, whatever you-- whatever you want.
Nathaniel: Yeah, there's actually a political campaign that was just released. Entirely AI, called, “Beat Biden.” I can put a link to it in the show notes, but completely AI. All the photography—
Daniel: Beat Biden?
Nathaniel: Yeah. All the photography, everything from the GOP. It's on their YouTube channel right now.
Seth: What about that song with Drake and-- The Drake song that was, like, completely made by AI, but, like, it was it's like a hit song? So, like, nobody-- if nobody gives a shit about these artists—
Daniel: Uh, wait a second. What if we're already AI anyways? What if we're just in a simulation?
Seth: Let's just go there. You haven't—
Daniel: Yeah
Seth: Yeah. You haven't thought about that?
Daniel: I think about it all the time. Because, if you think about the Universe, or whatever, it just blows your brain anyways. So, the only reasonable answer is…
Seth: Well, this is one thing I've been exploring a lot because I think there's a shared consciousness. That's how—
Daniel: 100%
Seth: That's how we all sort of, like, operate, right? That's how-- And it could be—
Daniel: 100%, like I think know this to be a fact. Definitely. You heard it here.
Seth: Yes.
Daniel: Yeah.
Seth: I've been going deep on this stuff.
Daniel: I mean, it's the only way that I can find hope to keep living is to know that I’ll just return to like some oneness, right?
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: Not to be depressing.
Seth: That's not depressing.
Daniel: I know. It's awesome. You were just saying something before we got--
Seth: Yeah. So, I was asking--Yeah. We went on—
Daniel: Is he on ca-- He's on camera too so you can just see how disappointed he was with the fact that I did that. That I-- both brought that up and then we didn’t go anywhere.
Nathaniel: Oh yeah, we'll clip that. We’ll clip that.
Seth: No, we'll go back to it because I think there's some interesting things. I think you-- your job is to have a vision for the future. And that's-- as a leader. So, if you don't, I'm going to be super disappointed. What is that vision? What is the vision for Skinny Raven and the bigger picture-- the bigger vision and picture for these-- all these other running stores/boutiques/--
Daniel: You're really going to put that on me? That I have to come up with a vision for them?
Seth: I think you have—So, you have something in mind that you probably think about a lot, but you may-- It may not be a fully developed idea, but just share with us, like, what it is. Like, what the fuck you thinking? What is it?
Daniel: What I’m thinking—
Seth: Because I think you're a leader in this industry.
Daniel: Well, if anybody else in our industry is listening to this ever, they will challenge that statement directly. Probably in the comments below. I probably said this in the beginning but, like, you know, I really just see the more-- the more the landscape continues to homogenize, like, and people are-- I mean, you already see it. If it's Target, or Walmart, or, you know, Amazon, but being great at anything, like, I don't care what, you know. You could see-- We could, you know-- We don't want to necessarily list off your clients here, but like—
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: You know-- you know—
Seth: A fence company or...
Daniel: Yeah, a fence company. Be fucking great at what you do, like—
Seth: Building fences. High quality fences.
Daniel: Yeah, building fences. Actually be great with relationships. Be the person that that person-- sorry if I got too loud. I told you I'd get excited like that. But, like, be the person that everybody wants to tell about. You know, like, I met a guy golfing last summer, Nick, Northern Roofing-- probably needs a marketing agency. And this guy sold me on his company and we, like—And he sold me on his company. Not what he does, or the work he's doing, or I didn't go inspect his prior jobs, like, he was like an awesome guy. Like, he was like an awesome human that was super fun to connect with. So, whatever it is-- And you could tell he wanted to be great at what he did and you could tell that he cared.
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: Like, if you're-- Whatever we're doing, you know, if it's me with the functions that I still-- You know, the control at Skinny Raven. If it's payroll or bookkeeping, like, whatever it is, just be fucking great at it. Like-- or be good at it.
Seth: And care.
Daniel: And care about it.
Seth: Yeah, and care about it.
Daniel: You know-- Give a shit if you pay your employees on Tuesday the third or if you push it all the way to the seventh because, you know, it's convenient for you. And, you know, you'll have more money in the bank.
Seth: Yeah. Speaking from experience it sounds like.
Daniel: But anything-- it doesn't-- it doesn't matter just, like—
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: Like, you know, and so, for us with-- if it's-- if it's Skinny Raven operating in, you know, in the-- in the manner we do now, selling running shoes and, you know, pickleball shoes, or—
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: Whatever for people that want to pursue an active life.
Seth: Mm-hmm.
Daniel: Like, be amazing at it. Continue to look at ways that you can, like, help your customer and your employee on their journey. Like, it's-- you know, if it's our employee, there's a window that they come to us and there's a window they leave, generally. And we want to continually elevate them. Like, you know, their knowledge, their experience, their compensation. We like, you know, so look out for your employee, look out for your customer. So, I don't think any of that's revolutionary.
Seth: No.
Daniel: However—
Seth: If people are getting away from it.
Daniel: But, yeah, double down
Seth: Yeah, double-down.
Daniel: Like, double down on, like, you know. I mean, you could have any business-- As you're seeing, like, there were marketing agencies all over Anchorage when you started this.
Seth: Yep
Daniel: Right?
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: And you have a lot of clients that signed up to do business with you.
Seth: Yup. Yeah, that's true. Yeah.
Daniel: Clearly you offered a different perspective, a different engagement, a different, maybe, more, maybe more personalized, maybe you were touching on a area of business that other people weren't, if it was social media—
Seth: Yeah. for sure.
Daniel: Whatever. I can't answer that question for you.
Seth: Being unique. Different.
Daniel: Yeah, so--
Seth: Being niche-y. Being more niche-y.
Daniel: Whatever you want to do and we could talk about skinny raven or we could talk about any number of retail stores? Like, be great at something. Like, treat your people, like, with love and kindness. Employees and customers, actually, anybody you interact with in community. Yep, like, you know, and just don't be a dick.
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: Is that like, you know,
Seth: Is that too hard? Is that too much to ask?
Daniel: No. And what is like-- what does your future look like in that situation?
Seth: It looks good. Is it cause of--
Daniel: Probably.
Seth: Karma?
Daniel: I’m-- Look at Mill and Feed.
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: Right?
Seth: Alaska Mill and Feed.
Daniel: Alaska Mill and Feed. Like, those guys run a great business. I can get my pet food anywhere else. And, you know, like, many other places-- I mean, you could feed them-- Like, you know—
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: So—But, you drive down there, and it's not because of the loyalty program, it's not—But, it's all-- it's the whole package.
Seth: Totally.
Daniel: Right?
Seth: And I think it's important to know, like, these businesses, including yours and Alaska Mill and Feed, they have pivoted to adapt to this current, modern, you know, age we live in with-- With-- for them in particular, they'll do delivery, like, same day delivery. For you guys, people can order shoes, right?
Daniel: Yep, sure.
Seth: Online and come pick them up or get them delivered to them. So, it's not like you guys are just sitting on your laurels and being like, oh, we're not adopting this stuff. But you're also-- You utilizing-- Is there—Well, that leads me to the question, is there anything you're doing on the digital side that, sort of, allows you to create that same kind of experience? Or is it just, kind of like, something you have been able to do—to create that same kind of experience in store that you have online? And you guys have a great website, by the way. Shout out to Curtis Penny.
Daniel: That guy did not need any help. I would say that it's coming on the, you know-- and it may not start with the Skinny Raven’s of the world, but we all know, you know, advancements in, you know, in one area are leading to advancements in other areas. There's going to be foot scanning technology-- I mean, it's already out there in terms of-- two times the phone's ring today.
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: But, you know, so there will be an in-store experience--
Seth: That's going to be better.
Daniel: --to deliver digitally--
Seth: That's aided by technology.
Daniel: For sure. And—
Seth: What about something that people send home with people, or people can do in their home that allows them to sit at home and gets their-- fitted. I don't know. I don't know.
Daniel: Are you developing something?
Seth: I've thought about it.
Daniel: Patents pending?
Seth: You know, I had a lot of ideas back in the day when I used to work in the shoe industry.
Daniel: Wet foot test?
Seth: Wet foot test. That's an old one. For all-- for people who don't know you, just-- If you want to know what kind of foot type you have, you put your foot in water and then you step onto, like—
Daniel: A paper towel
Seth: A brown paper bag if you want to see it really good and you can see if your arch is high, medium, or low, and that helps you determine—
Daniel: I don't think people are living and dying by that anymore, but it was something that existed.
Seth: I'm not a podiatrist, but…
Daniel: You know, I see it in a room full of people that here that are clearly passionate about what you guys are doing, you're excited. I can just tell you just all love being here today to participate in this first ever podcast.
Seth: They set all this up. I mean, they did all this.
Daniel: Exactly.
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: So, like, and-- to be fair, they were ready at the time stated, like, on the day stated, excited ready to go. It wasn't like I showed up and it was like, oh, uh, yeah, we're gonna get the mics working and—
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: --you know—
Seth: We're not wasting time.
Daniel: No, like, this is, you know, you guys gave a shit about doing this. So, like, I would just-- yeah, I would encourage people-- you know, as you're-- as you're-- as you're drumming through the day, or through your life, or whatever, like-- just, you know-- throw a stake in the ground and give a shit about something, no matter what it is. You're not a—Listen. The world will not let you just sit home and run out of money if you if you decide to pursue most of your-- most of your interests, right? There's an opportunity for you.
Seth: Yeah, I think so. Those soft skills that, I think people underestimate, they think that, you know, going to school is important. Obviously, learning technical skills is super important, but if you don't have that ability to connect with people and have that energy that allows you to, sort of, motivate people to want to work with you and to have a certain feeling, we all know we're emotional beings and invoking emotion comes through caring, giving a shit, being cool. Not like what can I do, like, technically, but more about how I make people feel and I think that's something that people-- some people underestimate. Other people's—
Daniel: I think that's perfect way to end it.
Seth: Okay. You like that?
Daniel: Right? Like, you know, how you make people feel.
Seth: Yeah, it's all about how you make people feel and I think that is the driver for--
Daniel: I just determined how we were gonna end your podcast.
Seth: This is your-- this is your podcast right now.
Daniel: This is getting thrown in the trash, I already know the future of this episode.
Seth: No.
Daniel: Can you come back to re-record next week. We didn’t have the—the mics all broke.
Seth: We might have you do that. No. We do have some rapid-fire questions. We want to do the rapid-fire questions before we end up?
Nathaniel: We do. Yes. We do have five questions for you. Super quick.
Daniel: Okay.
Nathaniel: Number one. What is your favorite spot to eat in Anchorage?
Daniel: Middle Way or Tommy's Burger Stop.
Seth: Ooh, you're on a Tommy's kick. I haven't had Tommy's in a while.
Daniel: I would eat Tommy's literally seven days a week if I didn't think it would—
Seth: What—
Daniel: probably—
Seth: What do you get?
Daniel: I don't even subscribe to, like, the fact that meat will kill me. I just think Tommy's seven days a week would kill me.
Seth: What do you get?
Daniel: Sweet Charlotte, for sure.
Seth: Sweet Charlotte?
Daniel: Yeah.
Seth: I'm a Black & Blue guy.
Daniel: Yeah? Well, you would be. Do you ever go to the dessert case because I know they have, like, Musky Pie in there--
Seth: Never.
Daniel: But I just could never do it.
Seth: How can you do it? Like, you're eating a burger and fries. Like, you're gonna throw more calories on top of that?
Daniel: Also, have you noticed that they stopped peppering the fries?
Seth: I haven't been, like I said, I haven't been there, probably, in like a couple-- few years.
Daniel: What?
Seth: I don't remember last time I went.
Daniel: Where do you eat around here? Do you go to like the cafe over the Aloft? You go to, like—
Seth: Well, first of all, I fast till 2 o'clock.
Daniel: I know this is so ridiculous. Oh my glucose monitoring. I’m gonna live forever because I fast.
Seth: Let me tell you about my cold plunges.
Daniel: I try fasting every single day.
Seth: You do?
Daniel: Yeah, and then like 10 o'clock at night comes around and I just gotta eat more. And then, the next morning.
Seth: Well, you're a thin guy. I mean, for people who are watching this. You’re—
Daniel: I’m 195 pounds. I mean, you know.
Seth: That's how much I weigh.
Daniel: Yeah, see? And you’re fasting. Not sure what that means. Okay.
Seth: Next question.
Daniel: Favorite place is— so,,
Seth: Tommy's.
Daniel: Yeah, Tommy's, Middle Way.
Nathaniel: Cool. Question number two. What's your favorite place that you visited in Alaska?
Daniel: Well, like most people who live here, I probably take it all for granted
Seth: Yeah, we do.
Daniel: But, I would say, frequency and recency, I rode my snow machine to the top of Turnagain Pass, like, two weeks ago. That was pretty fucking amazing. Terrifying, but amazing. But, if I were to say, like, my favorite, like-- during Covid we went to this campground, Sugie—T’Sug-- uh,--
Seth: K’esug…
Daniel: Yes, K’esugie Ridge campground. K’esugie Ken Campground. And this-- If you haven't been there, it's almost impossible during, like, normal tour seasons to get things, but it is such an amazing spot.
Seth: Let's let the record show Daniel did say he has a snow machine, which is—
Daniel: Well, I mean loosely…
Seth: For a lot of people—
Daniel: Yeah, I know. Oh…
Seth: Probably they don't believe it. How many times you ride it a year.
Daniel: This year? I rode it once. Yeah, top of Turnagain Pass. And it wasn’t even my snow machine. I borrowed somebody else's.
Seth: This wasn't even yours.
Daniel: No, I didn’t plan on going.
Seth: You didn't ride your snow machine once?
Daniel: Not one time, but others did.
Seth: It’s badass snow machine.
Daniel: Anyways.
Nathaniel: Here we go. Question three. Favorite place to get coffee?
Daniel: My kitchen.
Nathaniel: Your kitchen.
Daniel: And this is actually a—yeah. This is-- Like, I-- This is a problem, for me, actually, that I'd like to solve in Anchorage. And no diss to anybody, the way they're doing it. If it's Kaladi Brothers who makes great coffee.
Seth: Black Cup
Daniel: Black Cup, and these guys, but, like,
Seth: SteamDot.
Daniel: Yeah, Middle Way, great americano.
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: Great coffee. I do like, actually—Okay, rather than say that, I’ll be fair. Currently, my favorite place with ambiance and everything would be That Feeling Co.
Seth: The one downtown?
Daniel: I go to the one downtown, but I like Dowling as well.
Seth: What's next?
Nathaniel: Question four. Favorite place to hike in Alaska?
Daniel: Favorite place to hike in Alaska. I'm gonna go with the with the real easy, like, Peak Two. Like, Flat Top, Peak Two. But, Rabbit Lakes is pretty cool. There's so many of them. But, yeah.
Nathaniel: Last question, number five. What type of business do you think would work well here in Anchorage? Or what do you think is missing?
Seth: Yeah, where's a gap in the market? That's a great question.
Daniel: I mean, if I'm being completely honest, anywhere, any business.
Seth: It's true.
Daniel: Like, any business that-- and I'm not just saying this, like-- because this is something I think about a lot. But, do we have a best in class in every, like—do-- or do we have a-- I think about this with restaurants. My daughter lives in Phoenix. I go there a lot. If you go to a restaurant down there that's just mediocre, like, I'm talking about, like, good, but not great. Like, that could be—God, I’m about to sound super pretentious—but, that could be ambiance, food, it could be service, it could be any number of things.
Seth: No, I think you're right. You—People don't realize this. That, like, a five in Arizona on a scale from one to ten is…
Daniel: An eight and a half here.
Seth: Is like a Bear Tooth here.
Daniel: Or—
Seth: Potentially.
Daniel: Yeah, and no disrespect to anybody.
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: Because there's some great-ass restaurants here, you know.
Seth: You're right. If you’re well-traveled-- If you're well-traveled, then you would know. Like, there's a lot-- There's another level out there.
Daniel: I'm actually just saying that you don't have to go back there. Like, you have a mediocre experience and here you're still going to be in the—
Seth: Same.
Daniel: You're still going to be in the cycle of six restaurants, or whatever. And, listen. We're lucky to have some of the great restaurants we have.
Seth: For sure.
Daniel: However, I just look at—And, unless you want to get into the running shoe business. Now, that's bad. We have best in class there. However-- As a disclaimer.
Seth: I think there's-- that's why there hasn't been another running store—
Daniel: It’s also, like—
Seth: --pop up. For sure. They're going to try to compete with Skinny Raven? How many bike stores is there?
Daniel: Like, 17?
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: No, there's like eight. I would say that they're capitally intensive, to start a running store. It takes a lot of money, so maybe people look at it and go, like, God, like, I'm only going to make a little bit to put all that in?
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: But, yeah. I—Anyways—
Seth: Any business.
Daniel: I can't think of-- I can't think of any industry here in this town that there are so many of them that are so good that if you didn't have a great idea and a passion to do it—
Seth: That it wouldn’t work.
Daniel: Look at Whiskey & Ramen.
Seth: Yeah.
Daniel: Those guys, like, open downtown in really, like, a-- I mean, I haven’t even been there, but I can tell you just from everybody else's experience, and the fact that, you know, what they did to that building, which is beautiful. It, like,— They showed, like--They showed that-- come up with a great idea, passionate about it, like a unique offering, and you're gonna have-- What is their waitlist? It's like, into 2030 now?
Seth: Yeah, it's like three months out.
Daniel: It's just, like, it's like so—So, yeah, maybe it's up to somebody else to tell me that there is a— but I would like to give you a direct answer. So, what business-- If I was going to get in any business in this town and--
Seth: Where's our gap?
Daniel: Well, I'll tell you one of them is-- I don't even want this or need it, but men's “suitory”. Like, where are you going?
Seth: Wow. I was just thinking about that the other day, because you got the-- what's the place right over here?
Daniel: Stallone's.
Seth: Stallone’s. Which—
Daniel: And Stallone’s appeals to a client, man. And that client is not a 35-year-old--
Seth: No.
Daniel: Hipster.
Seth: Hipster. And then you got Rack.
Daniel: Which-- Good luck.
Seth: Yeah, and that's it.
Daniel: And then you got online. And buying a suit online is a joke.
Seth: You can’t buy a suit online.
Daniel: Oh, you got Men's Warehouse, but, come on.
Seth: That place is-- I heard they were going out of— bankruptcy. They were closing—Like, I just heard that.
Daniel: Really?
Seth: Yeah, they're closing a bunch of stores.
Daniel: With Bed-- With Bed-Bath, too?
Seth: Yeah. Yeah, with Bed-Bath. I know. Bed-Bath just-- Chapter 11?
Daniel: Yeah, I think Chapter 7 and 11. So, they're done. They're liquidating now.
Seth: Wow.
Daniel: All in the course of, like, you know, like-- yeah, anyways. People can figure out the news on Bed-Bath, but men's “suitor” would be a big one. I mean, like I said, you know-- I kind of like that coffee shop too, but clearly I have a unique vision for one, so, I probably need to start it myself. But yeah, anything great. Anything. Do it.
Seth: I think you’re right.
Daniel: Just do it.
Seth: There's a lot of opportunity there.
Daniel: We're sitting in a marketing agency. Like I said before, that-- you know, there was already tons of them in Anchorage. Big, good ones too, right?
Seth: Yeah, Oh Yeah.
Daniel: Good, big ones.
Seth: Yeah.
